Culture
Kenny G talks tour, ‘Songbird’ endurance, surprises of young fans, why practicing hard still beats AI
By: Ian Saint
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MARIETTA, Ohio (WOUB) – Kenny G warrants very little prefacing.
He is the most famous saxophone player alive, and perhaps the most famous in world history — considering his widespread popularity in China, a territory that was unreachable for Western entertainers until recently, where his Going Home song has been woven into everyday life — and he is the greatest-selling instrumental musician, in general, of all time. He is widely credited with spurring the birth of a whole new genre, “smooth jazz,” a description that he has no intention of embodying… and to top it off, he’s consistently rocked a gloriously epic coif of hair, that he fears would torpedo his career if he dared to cut it.
While Kenny G’s journey to superstardom is marvelously unorthodox, it certainly didn’t come overnight nor by chance. Penny Lane’s Listening to Kenny G, a recent HBO music documentary, chronicles how vigilantly Kenny has practiced the saxophone since he was a teenager. His Arista Records deal was inked a few years after attaining his degree in accounting; and his first Gold single, Songbird, was not recorded until his fourth album — years after begrudgingly weathering the label’s cringe-inducing attempts to make the saxophone player palatable to new demographics. In fact, as seen in the documentary, Kenny’s Songbird success was struck because Kenny himself made a snap decision to pull a fast one on The Tonight Show’s producers in 1986.
Although his legacy is well-cemented, Kenny G hasn’t grown complacent. He still practices at least three hours every day, never wavering in his determination to further refine his talent; and the documentary’s behind-the-scenes footage of his new album, New Standards, shows how precisely Kenny obsesses over finessing every single note that he records. Rather than bemoan how the lucrative era of releasing albums with Diamond sales certifications is long gone, Kenny has embraced the younger generations’ ideas for keeping his signature sound ebbing in the mainstream.
July, 2023 sees Kenny G on tour, which includes stops in two regions of Ohio: the Robins Theatre in Warren (160 E. Market St.) on Saturday, July 8; and a return to the Peoples Bank Theatre in Marietta (222 Putnam St.), where he played a sold-out show in 2019, on Sunday, July 9.
Ahead of commencing that Buckeye State slate of dates, Kenny spoke to WOUB at length about his wide-ranging career.
Listen to WOUB’s interview with Kenny G by clicking “play” in the Soundcloud widget above. Find a transcript of the conversation, edited for length and clarity, below.
Ian Saint:
Thank you so much for speaking with WOUB, the NPR affiliate in Ohio — where you have two shows coming up: first at the Robins Theater in Warren on Saturday, July 8; and then the People’s Bank Theatre in Marietta on Sunday… so you’ll be in [both] northeast Ohio and southeast Ohio. Why don’t we start off with asking: do you have any special memories associated with Ohio, or even general observations about the Buckeye State over the years?
Kenny G:
You know, we’ve played so many shows in Ohio, all the cities — Toledo, Cleveland, Columbus, etc. So I think that it’s probably one state I’ve visited more often than a majority of the other states in the United States, for sure. It’s gotta be in the top two or three.
Ian Saint:
Wow!
Kenny G:
It’s good memories; I appreciate all the support. You know, we like to work; so if there’s work for us, we’re happy to take the work. And we appreciate that Ohio has been a place that seems to want us to come back, over and over — and we love that!
Ian Saint:
Yes! And you’re correct: there are many cities in Ohio. <laugh> The Peoples Bank Theatre, they are a wonderful partner venue of ours; and I know you played there not too long ago — a sold-out show, actually — on September 8, 2019… about six months before the plague hit. Do you happen to remember playing there?
Kenny G:
I do remember! I remember, ‘cause the name “Peoples Bank” is a unique name for a venue. So yeah, I do remember that. It was great; we snuck it in just before the world changed!
Ian Saint:
That’s right! And that last Marietta show would’ve taken place while Brazilian Nights was the latest album… but now we have New Standards, which we saw you working on in the documentary. Some artists, you know, I guess they feel [consistent] expectations when it comes to their show — no matter what the latest album is… or, they heavily adapt their show, depending on the latest album and its vibe. Has your show evolved a lot since you swung through in 2019?
Kenny G:
You know, for my show, it’s a different thing. People, I don’t think, are coming to hear specific songs. You know, I’ve been doing this for like 40 years on the road, so I think I’m correct — I think people come because they want to experience a feeling, a vibe, a sound, [and] don’t really care about the songs. So for me, the set list will be the songs that work the best [for performing] live. And that doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll be playing a lot of things from the latest record, because those songs live are not as quite as… I don’t know, I guess “impactful” might be the word, as some of my other things. So we don’t necessarily play the new ones just because we have a new album; we play the songs that work the best. We have one song that we’ll do, for sure, from the new album; but I’m not sure we’ll do much more, and I don’t think people really care that much.
Ian Saint:
Well, I do think you’re right, that people come to hear a specific sound — the unmistakable Kenny G sound. You know, I was kind of taken in listening to New Standards, and I also was listening to Brazilian Nights, the previous album… and they are so remarkably different in terms of their tempo, ambience, all those things — yet, they’re unmistakably sounding like Kenny G.
One aspect of New Standards that I really love — and that might be hard to recreate live, I’d imagine — is the orchestral accompaniment that is running throughout the album. Now that I know how many other instruments — in addition to saxophone — you’ve played on your records, and how much you surgically overdub different parts here and there to get each little stitch right… with an orchestra, obviously, other people are playing. Can you talk about your work with the orchestra, as far as your involvement with arranging their parts and recording them? I don’t know if you can get an orchestra to play one note <laugh> the same way you can for your own self.
Kenny G:
No, it’s a lot different with the orchestra. I have a guy that I work with a lot, named Bill Ross, and he does beautiful arrangements. So he’ll write out the arrangement, we’ll go over it together… if there’s things I want to change, we’ll do that — [so] when it’s time to record the orchestra, we’ve already gone through that process. And then the orchestra will read their charts, and they usually go through it once or twice, and then it sounds fine. It’s not as crucial that every person in the orchestra plays exactly perfect; it’s just, the orchestra adds a layer to the sound… and as long as it’s in the ballpark, it works great — and they end up playing it perfectly, anyway. But we don’t get too crazy about the specifics when it comes to the orchestra… so yeah, once they play, it’s just to add that layer and that’s great.
Ian Saint:
So it sounds like you didn’t single out the oboe player, for example, and put that person on the spot to re-record something… <laugh>
Kenny G:
No, no, we didn’t do that.
Official trailer for Listening to Kenny G, directed by Penny Lane, released on HBO.
Ian Saint:
I did watch the Penny Lane documentary, Listening to Kenny G, and I loved it. I loved the behind-the-scenes for recording of New Standards; but I also found it very insightful about your past catalog — and the story of Songbird, in particular, is incredible. You know, my jaw dropped when I heard the story of how you took a real gamble on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, and how consequential that snap decision really was. After seeing how surgically precise[ly] you can record some of your parts, with overdubbing to make certain notes perfect – and even partial notes — I know Songbird was recorded, of course, in the days of tape, not Pro Tools… and [recorded] when the instrumental songs weren’t given quite as much priority by [Arista Records] quite yet. Do you recall the recording process for that song, in particular, Songbird? And if you were given the room to refine it as you wished?
Kenny G:
Well, back then, you didn’t have all of those options — so they weren’t even in my consciousness [as[ a possibility. So you kind of just did what you did. That’s why, if you really listen to a lot of the music from the ‘70s and ‘80s, you’ll hear singers [who are] a little bit out of tune, maybe a little bit out of time — but it doesn’t matter, because our ears were just listening to music, and we weren’t listening so perfectly, like we do now… because now we’re used to hearing everything perfectly in-tune and perfectly in-time.
So when I recorded Songbird [in 1986], it was really pretty easy: I just played it, and then [it] sounded good to my ear… I just played it a couple of times — I didn’t go in and fine-tune notes at all. It was mainly [I would re-record] a longer phrase, that I might want to play differently — but not like today, where I can go in and do note-by-note. Not to say one [recording approach] is better than the other… but I would say that the fact that you can fine tune,-I think, it’s better now; I really do. [That] doesn’t mean that Songbird wasn’t great; it was! And had I had the opportunity to [overdub specific notes in 1986], I probably would’ve done it. And who knows, maybe it wouldn’t have connected with people, had I made it “perfect”? Nobody knows; I don’t know the right answer there.
When I listen to Songbird, I hear some out-of-tune notes that I played; I [also] hear some notes that I would’ve played in a different timing. But I wouldn’t change a thing, now, because the song is the song… in fact, I did re-record it in my studio, [maybe] 10 years ago — and did it *perfectly* in-tune… and when I listened to it, it sounded like it had no life to it — because I’m so used to hearing it the only way that I’ve ever heard it [which is the 1986 recording]. So there you go.
Ian Saint:
Wow! That is very interesting. Did you ever put out that re-recording, or did you decide to keep it in the vault?
Kenny G:
<laugh> I think I erased it.
Music video for Songbird, Kenny G’s first Gold single, released in 1987.
Ian Saint:
Oh, gosh! <laugh> You know, I was laughing [while] thinking about this producer on The Tonight Show, who was fuming and flipping you off when you snuck in Songbird [rather than his latest single, that featured a lead vocalist]. First of all, my initial thought was, I’m impressed that you managed to not get too distracted by that. But also, you know, that [performance] is what kicked off your superstardom. Did you ever run into that guy again, or hear from him in any way, where maybe he’d nibbled on a little bit of humble pie for such a strong reaction?
Kenny G:
Actually, I did! Because they asked us to come back six months later, because the song became a hit, and they asked me to specifically play Songbird. I didn’t go back saying, “Hey, I told you so!” or anything like that. I just came back as I would treat anybody — just the same. I didn’t say, “Hey, it was my decision [to play Songbird], and you thought I was all wrong; but I ended up being right!” I never said any of that stuff. I just said, “Hey, I’ll be happy to come back and play on The Tonight Show; and you guys want me to play Songbird? I’ll play that again. You guys were the ones that broke it.” And I think they seemed very proud of themselves, now, that they were the first ones to play Songbird.
Ian Saint:
Absolutely. Well, that’s a wonderful perspective; and it’s a good takeaway, I think, for our listeners, too — because that would’ve been an easy opportunity for you to rub it in, I suppose, and one couldn’t blame you for it. I think that’s a very refreshing take.
I kind of had a light bulb moment. You know, prior to WOUB, I worked for the Women’s Texas Film Festival for five years — where all the films had a female production leader. So I was, personally, especially delighted to see that Penny Lane made your documentary — and I thought she did such a spectacular job of contextualizing Kenny G, in a way that made even your harshest critics crack, it seemed.
Then also, going back to that Songbird performance on the Tonight Show, the very first one… I’m sorry, I don’t know her name [as she wasn’t named on the documentary], but the wife of [an executive] at Arista Records piped up about how that is the creative direction the record company should invest in — you know, to back off from the insistence on [hiring lead[ vocalists and things like that.
So I couldn’t help but notice that when it comes to getting, I guess, Kenny G “understood” — for lack of a better term — both for making you a music superstar, and also for humanizing you for the masses with this documentary, it was *women* who “got it.” Um, do you have any thoughts on that?
Kenny G:
I think that’s exactly what happened. Now, who’s to know whether this is true or not, but it would seem — based upon what happened with the radio feedback that we got in the ‘80s, so, this is 35 plus years ago… you know, for your younger people, radio was the only way you heard music. There was no Internet, there [were] no computers; so you couldn’t find music — you just heard it on the radio. So as people hear it on the radio, the thing that people would do is call into the station and give their feedback. And it turned out that when my song Songbird came on, lots of women — young women — called in [to the radio station] and said how much they liked it. So that’s basically how it started.
And I’m thinking that the women ended up bringing their boyfriends, or whoever they were bringing to my concerts — maybe dragging them, because maybe guys in general would probably wanna listen to music that had maybe more of a harder edge.
I think what happens at our concerts [is] that people [who] don’t really know my music, or have not watched me before, are surprised. Let’s say a lady brings a guy to my concert, and he’s going because he wants to make her happy, and she’s gonna listen to this music… and he probably thinks that the show will be, you know, a bunch of soft ballads and some romantic music — and it’s gonna be quiet, and it’ll be handholding…
Okay, yeah, we do music like that — but also at our concert, we show off what 50 years of practicing an instrument will do. And all the guys in my band are like me: we’ve dedicated our lives to our instruments, so we’re damn good. So when you watch my percussionist play his solo, it’s dynamic; and there’s a lot of fire and up-tempo stuff that happens with the drums and the bass… so all that stuff happens, and people have commented that they had no idea they were going to see all of that at my show. So that’s kind of how it all kind of translated into people becoming, I guess, supportive of me and my music. Once they saw me play live, they went, “whoa, we didn’t expect all of that!”
Ian Saint:
I’m glad you brought up the younger generations, because something that I think was one of the most touching aspects in the documentary — that speaks to your character — was when you went back to your high school, and the principal asked if you’d write on their wall. I was very struck by how you felt so much pressure in that moment! And that scene, you know, is interspersed with [scenes of] you performing for gargantuan-sized crowds and the President of the United States… [yet] where you seem the most nervous in that film was [while] holding that marker in front of the high school wall! <laugh>
Kenny G:
Yeah! Yeah, you are right about that.
Ian Saint:
Can you expound on that a little bit? As to how that made you feel more nervous than, say, playing for the President of the United States or playing to a crowd of a hundred thousand [people]?
Kenny G:
I mean, it’s the fact that this is something that’s going to be permanent — so it’s going to be there forever. And I feel like I had a responsibility, too. You know, when something’s important, I don’t want to just whip [the marker] out and just get it done. Maybe it’s spur of the moment, [but]… if you’re going to do something great, for me, it’s like “think about it, consider it, contemplate, and *then* go into action.” So I just wish they would’ve told me, like, the night before; and I would’ve come there prepared with something beautiful. I needed to put [greater amount of] time and energy into it… I mean, I wasn’t sure [that] I was going to ever write anything, because I wasn’t sure if I would come up with what I wanted [students] to read.
Also, it’s my high school! People might be looking up to me, and go, “oh, what did you write?” “Hey, have fun!” No! <laugh> Anyway, it took me a while to figure out what I wanted to say — and then, of course, it’s exactly what I believe in. [Editor’s note: Kenny wrote “Go for what you love and practice, practice, practice.”] So, practice!
I just remember being in high school, and not being that great of a sax player — and here I am, coming back, and I’m much more accomplished. I don’t say that because of the [commercial] success; I say that because of my musicianship, that I’ve developed since high school — almost 50 years, now. [That’s] a lot of time and energy put into something; and I felt really proud [to realize] “hey, I’m back, and sheesh! I really accomplished a lot. I’m so much of a better musician than I ever thought — I mean, I didn’t know how good I would end up being… but I knew that I would keep practicing and, and I’m just really grateful that everything turned out so well.
Among the millennial-delighting collaborations that Kenny G has embarked on in recent years is his mash-up performance with Warren G, as done on Jimmy Kimmel Live! in 2015.
Ian Saint:
Yes! That’s actually so refreshing to me, that you feel a sense of responsibility as to what impact you can have — and it could be in ways that you might not [initially] anticipate. You know, Marietta is a college town, and you’ll be performing there on Sunday…
Your discography now spans four decades, and a lot has happened since [then]. I was very struck by how the younger generations — us millennials and Gen Z — in the documentary, seem to really embrace you in a way that is, I guess, just different from the past… and I know the music industry has changed drastically. The means of socialization and communication are vastly different from when you took off in your twenties.
For those younger listeners, that are interested in catching Kenny G for the first time, what observations do you have about this young adult generation — juxtaposed with when you were in your 20s and 30s? You know, as far as things that have transcended all those changes; and [also] things that strike you as very different?
Kenny G:
That’s a very good question. I think there’s just been kind of a resurgence, of an appreciation, for the real musicianship that exists with people like me — that have played an instrument [for] their whole life. And it’s not just about a popular song, or the new technology that allows you to do these certain things that become popular for whatever reason.
Also, some of the young artists have had me play solos on their records. So I think some of the young people are looking at me like, “wow, he must have something, if The Weeknd wants him to do a song with him,” or whoever else I’m doing stuff with. Now I’m on John Batiste’s new record; so people could go, “oh, wow, there must be something there.” And then, I think there’s just always room for the real thing — like a real violin, a real singer, a real composer, a real artist.
The young people, from what I see when they come to my concerts, they’re very impressed and they like it! I’ll see a lot of young people, like on Mother’s Day — I’ll see young guys bringing their moms to the show, and it’s a date between mom and son, or mom and daughter. And I often say, “oh, you know, sorry about that —I guess she dragged you.” And he goes, “no, no, I wanted to do it; I was excited to come.” It makes me happy.
Ian Saint:
Something I just thought of, as you said that, is [how] this is a scary time for a lot of us younger people — as far as how we’re going to navigate the future. Especially [for] us creatives, there’s so many unprecedented challenges, as far as the wild west of AI and things of that sort. And so, what you said about how all the years you invested in practicing and everything… you are still a compelling testament as to how that’s still a worthwhile thing to invest your time in doing — because it’s so easy to get discouraged these days.
That kind of ties into the documentary, too. You know, there’s a lot of discourse about showing vulnerability today. It seems that famous people — established and aspiring, both — were sort of cautioned about getting too candid in those days. But the paradigm pendulum seems to have kind of swung the other way in this era.
In this documentary, I was very taken aback by how intimate it was; and it broached some really tough topics — everything from parenting, to reckoning with the history of race in this country. Now that it’s been a year and a half [since the documentary’s release], what are your thoughts on that experience of opening up for the masses, in a lot of very candid respects? Are you glad you did it? Have you noticed a shift in who comprises your audiences, or how they react to things since you’ve done it?
Kenny G:
Oh, that’s a good question! No, I have no regrets at all. When I do something that’s creative, like creating… well, not that I was in charge of the special — I mean, I wasn’t, you know. I did my part; and of course I could give [director] Penny feedback… when I saw the first run through, I said, “Penny, I don’t like these particular scenes right here.” And, uh, she didn’t care. <laugh> And that’s fine!
You know, I signed off on the fact that [Penny Lane was] going to have the final say-so; but [I’d say] “let me just tell you why I don’t like this.” Let’s say I wanted eight things changed; she changed one of them, um, which was fine… you know, it’s not a make or break to me.
So, I’m not upset or regretful about sharing. I think people connect with people that open themselves up. You don’t have to be perfect; you don’t have to show your best side all the time. You can be vulnerable, and you can just express yourself with humility — and also with the fact that you don’t know the right answer.
Like, I don’t know the right answer about some of the things we talked about in the documentary. And I told Penny that when we were talking; I said, “I don’t know if this is true or not; but this was my impression, and I might be 100 percent wrong.” And I think people appreciate that.
I *have* got lots of comments [from] guys that you wouldn’t think like my music — like when I’m working out at the gym. When I’m home, I go to a certain gym and I work out — and it’s not a celebrity gym, or anything like that. But every now and then, I’ll be doing some exercise, [and] somebody could come over and say, “Hey, I loved your documentary.” And it’s usually a guy; it’s not a girl. I would say that the comments I got about the documentary would be, like, 99% guys. So how about that?
Ian Saint:
That is very interesting! And, like I said, I’m a little bit personally biased in my enthusiasm for films made by women — but that is so interesting to me, you know, both the documentary provoking that… and then also, with Songbird, it was the wife of an executive who pushed for [Arista Records to invest in Kenny’s instrumental songs], and that’s what made you a global superstar.
And I just want to thank you so much for this amazing interview, Kenny. It’s been such a pleasure to connect with you. Congratulations on all this momentum at this phase in your remarkable career; and I wish you best of luck on these coming dates!
Kenny G:
Oh, thank you so much; I really appreciate it. This was a lot of fun — and I appreciate your questions, they were really fun to talk about… so thank you for being interested enough to ask those interesting questions.
Ian Saint:
Oh, well, thank you; that means a lot. You know, when I saw [in the documentary] the interviewers you’ve spoken with, I’m like, “okay, there’s Katie Couric, there’s…” and that’s a little bit daunting, when it comes to trying come up with questions. <laugh> So that is the validation I needed, thank you very much.
Kenny G:
Awesome, awesome. Okay, well, have a great day! Hopefully we’ll get to meet someday, and I look forward to that moment.
Ian Saint:
Thank you, Kenny! Alright, take care.
Kenny G plays two Ohio shows this weekend: the Robins Theatre in Warren (160 E. Market St.) on Saturday, and returning to the Peoples Bank Theatre in Marietta (222 St.) on Sunday. For tickets, and a full tour itinerary, visit his official website: www.kennyg.com/events