Culture
Ghul of Mayhem talks to WOUB about balancing dysfunction and darkness and how Norwegian black metal translates to an American audience.
By: Nicholas Kobe
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ATHENS, Ohio (WOUB) – Mayhem is one of the most influential bands in black metal history. Riding on the coattails of bands like Venom and Bathory, Mayhem and bands such as Darkthrone and Emperor formed the “second wave” of Black metal, or “Norwegian Black Metal”.
This period is marred with controversy, including the burnings of multiple churches. Mayhem’s story is perhaps the most infamous of all, with the suicide of vocalist Per Yngve “Pelle” Ohlin, otherwise known as “Dead”, followed by the murder of “Euronomous” by fellow band member Varg Varkines. This intense history led to a large amount of buzz for the release of the band’s debut album, De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas.
The band returned to the stage within a few years, releasing an EP in 1997 and a full second LP in 2000. Since then, Mayhem has gone through a variety of lineup changes, played festivals and tours, and released new music. Mayhem still remains a force of nature today as they headline the 2025 Decibel Tour, bringing a massive 2-hour show across the Atlantic to play a wide-ranging set across their 40-year history.
Charles “Ghul” Hedger took the time to talk to WOUB as the band embarked on the Decibel Tour alongside Mortiis, Imperial Triumphant, and New Skeletal Faces. Find a transcript of their conversation, edited for length and clarity, below.
Nicholas Kobe: If you had to describe Mayhem to somebody who’s never heard them in one sentence, what would you say?
Ghul: I would say it’s extreme, thought-provoking, and relentless. I think the thought-provoking one is the one that the sort of normies would see as a sort of ridiculous thing to say. But of course, once you scratch the surface of art like this, you see that there is a lot that’s being said, and there is a lot to think about, and it’s an exploration of darker sides of humanity and existence.
What about black metal as a genre leads it to being an exploration of these thought-provoking themes?
Ghul: It comes from the darkness. It exists in the darkness. And so naturally, those are the kinds of aspects of human psychology, human existence, human spirituality that it explores. The people who are drawn to this kind of music are people who are naturally inclined to be more absorbed in the darker aspects of reality. So it’s a way for them to flesh that interest out and develop it into sounds and pictures.
What has changed about that environment of darkness? Have you noticed any change in the audience in the time since you’ve been in the band?
Ghul: The audience has got a lot younger. We still have our older fans, but our whole new couple of generations has come through as well, which is great because if you don’t replace the generational fan base, then eventually you just fade out. I think that the changes in society are also reflected in the changes in our audience as well, but on the whole, it’s the same kinds of people. I think you see more people in our audience now who are perhaps less as as extreme to the very core as they used to be back in the day. There are people who are there out of curiosity more than compulsion, but our hardcore fans are generally quite a welcoming bunch anyway, so it’s a little bit more of a mixture of people. There are definitely more people who I would describe as people who are probably a bit less messed up than your average extreme-minded person full of demons.
How can you tell?
Ghul: You can tell when you meet someone. I suppose some people would say it’s an aura, but you just know when you are around people like you who have the same kind of darkness that you. It’s obvious, and it’s not something that I think is a particularly great thing to have, to be honest. It certainly helps when it comes to creativity and, let’s say, a more measured view of reality. I think people who have suffered more demons are more inclined to see beneath the surface, and I think that that’s a blessing and a curse.
So last year, Mayhem celebrated 40 years of being a band. What do you think about the music of Mayhem keeps resonating with people today?
Ghul: Yeah, the thing is, you can’t talk about this band without factoring in the history of the band. That, of course, adds a mystique and a gateway to people coming into it. But I think once people get through that and past it, you get to the music; it does resonate with people because there’s nothing exactly like it. I mean, there’s an entire genre that tries to emulate the De Mysteries album. It is an entire genre now, but it is much more within this band musically. It goes off into some pretty bizarre experimental territories. I think that’s what resonates with people is the fact that that it’s kind of hard to place generically. That is combined with the fact that there is an uncompromising nature to what we do.
Thinking back to when you joined the band, what was the biggest surprise on your end, going into Mayhem with maybe the expectations you had versus the reality of what it was like in there?
Ghul: That’s an interesting question. I think what was the biggest surprise at first was just how phenomenally dysfunctional the whole thing was. Dysfunctional as a unit, dysfunctional as individuals. Nowadays, it’s a lot tighter. The management of the whole thing is a lot more organized, which is good for us because we need that framework to make it work because we don’t want to have to change ourselves.
We want to be the same people, the same outlet, sort of dysfunctional people. In order for that to work as a functional business, we need a framework to operate in. The dysfunction is absolutely a part. The characters involved are such a major part of what makes this what it is. If we tamed ourselves down, then the thing I said before about authenticity would go completely out the window.
Speaking of touring, you’re currently out on the Decibel tour. What’s been something special about this tour in particular?
Ghul: Well, we’ve just started it. This is day two now, so it’s sort of hard to describe it with any kind of detail yet because in the early days, but what’s special is just because it’s always great to be back in the States. It’s one of our best territories. [00:10:30] We all like to be here. We always seem to have a good time when we do these US tours.
It is always special when we come back, but it’s cool to come back and do this show with the screens, this 40th-anniversary show over here. We weren’t sure if we were ever going to be able to get it over here. It’s a cool show. It’s two hours long, which is pretty extreme. So that in itself makes it special.
Just to clarify, when you say it’s a two-hour package, are you talking about all the bands?
Ghul: No, we played for two hours. Our set is two hours, so that’s pretty heavy for five weeks or whatever it is every night.
What’s the endurance like for that on your end as a musician?
Ghul: It’s a lot. It’s hard work, and especially right now because everybody’s tired. Sometimes, when you travel to different time zones, it doesn’t affect you, and other times, it completely messes you up. This time around me and a couple of the other guys are struggling to acclimatize for some reason.
It’s just that my circadian rhythm is completely upside down, and it doesn’t know what’s going on. So combine that with these long, long shows. It’s demanding. Definitely not for the weak after, but it’s going. Once we settle in after the first week, then it should start to run smoothly. Two hours is going to be hard work, even when you’re in prime shape and well-rested. So it is not going to get easier in that sense.
You said that Mayhem has performed particularly well in the US. What do you think about Norwegian black metal translates to an American audience?
Ghul: I think Americans, in general, have a sort of hunger for old-world experiences. Most Americans are quite clear about what their sort of European lineage is, whether they’re Irish or German or whatever. It is a sort of heritage thing, and I think that black metal has this forest, old world, and castle-like thing about it. I think that’s got a lot to do with why it appeals so much aesthetically to the American audience. Deep down, it’s the same everywhere. The people who like this kind of music are the same kinds of people. It doesn’t matter if you’re in China, in the US, in Australia, in Dubai, it’s the same kind of people.